By Salvatore Cernuzio – Lourdes
An hour after meeting with Pope Leo XIV in Lourdes on Sunday evening, the seven survivors of clerical sexual abuse shared the emotions of their encounter with the Pope, whom they called a man of “deep listening” and “incredible empathy,” who was “struck” and “wounded” by the stories he heard.
Five of the seven victims who spent two hours in dialogue and prayer with the Pope in Lourdes on Sunday met this evening with a small group of international news outlets—including Vatican News—at a hotel in the Pyrenean town. They described their experience with Pope Leo XIV and the preparations for this important meeting.
A meeting planned with the Pope
“We worked for a month to establish the format of this meeting. We were supposed to see him for an hour, but instead we met him for an hour and fifty minutes,” said Olivier Mardi, an activist and co-founder of Voix Libérées de Touraine. “We had asked for it to be divided into two parts: first a group meeting, then individual meetings, one-to-one. And yesterday evening we received the reply that the Pope wanted to see us privately first, and then as a group.”
“The Pope himself requested a very small number. Initially five, then we reached seven,” explained Jérôme Guillement, who was assaulted by a priest as a child. The seven victims prepared everything together, among themselves and with the Pope: “The arrangements were worked out directly with him and with us: how to speak, how to address him, the subjects we wanted to tell him about.”
A transformative encounter
The result was this evening’s memorable encounter. “The first hour was very intense, since each person had an average of around 15 minutes,” Guillement continued. “He received many requests and listened to detailed accounts. And what we can simply say is that we felt we were with a man who was truly listening. I have rarely met anyone who listened so deeply.”
“In his response, he expressed his commitment, speaking first about his emotions,” Mardi added. “He said he was profoundly affected, deeply wounded. He spoke of open wounds, still open after meeting the Spanish victims. He was completely in tune with our stories. And I think that is precisely the transformative aspect.”
Deep empathy
All five victims said they were “touched” by the Pope’s “profound empathy”: “You could feel that he picked up on the smallest detail, that he was extremely attentive. I could even say that he enjoys this kind of interaction, because I could see that he was at once very attentive and very focused on every word.”
Bertrand Virieux, co-founder of La Parole Libérée, established exactly ten years ago, in 2016, stressed that the resonance of this evening was “worldwide”, not just “French”. He too said he was “truly struck by this Pope” and by “his non-verbal communication, his depth, his listening”. “This has brought me reconciliation.”
“When I saw the Pope up close, I could not believe it. Because at one point I felt a sudden surge of emotion,” confided Jean-Marie Delbos, a victim and key witness in the serious abuse case involving the Notre-Dame de Bétharram boarding school. “I have not had many deeply emotional moments in my life, because I have a very strong character. I asked him to bless my mother. And then, when he saw the state I was in, he put both arms around me. I never would have thought that it would be the Pope embracing me. It was an extraordinary moment. It has been 65 years since that happened, when I lost my faith.”
Hope for change
“I don’t go to Mass,” Delbos continued. “Today I went to Mass for the first time in 60 years. Even during Mass, when I saw the Pope… I had moments of emotion. I swear to you, when he gathered us together and said, ‘I bless you’, well, I made the sign of the cross. Even me, a well-known atheist.”
Today’s encounter is certainly not the end of the journey. “For me,” Delbos said, “it will be over when the smoke comes out of the chimney. Until then I will remain here, but with a new understanding of the Church, of this Pope who has shaken me.”
Everyone’s impression was that “this time something happened”. Some had been “sceptical” or had “feared this meeting”. After leaving the Bishop’s House, “each of us really felt we had glimpsed eternity… Something really happened; it happened on earth.”
It was a different feeling from that morning’s Mass. Véronique Garnier, of the Foi & Résilience collective, who was abused by her parish priest in Nancy, said: “Frankly, I was feeling really low. I was saying to myself, ‘What am I doing here?’ Then, by contrast, the afternoon was simple. We were told that the meeting had been brought forward a little; arrived sooner than expected.”
“I felt relieved because I was able to tell him everything I wanted to, because there was more time,” continued Garnier, one of the three women at the meeting; the other two chose to remain anonymous. “Initially, we had planned two or three minutes each; we had timed everything. In reality, we had plenty of time.”
The Pope, Véronique added, has “a very strong presence… He told us to have some sweets, a simple thing, and he gave us hope that something could change. He was not listening superficially, with fine words that never lead to very much. I think the change lies in the depth of his presence, something non-verbal, his listening, the way he welcomed what we were telling him, his reactions to what we said.”
An attentive and informed Pope
Above all, they sensed that he was fully informed. “He has an academic background in law. He knew my story and asked very precise questions,” Guillement added.
“So you can feel that he is someone who did the work beforehand and will continue working afterwards. And I sensed that he is a committed man; indeed, he spoke of commitment. I also felt that he is a determined man. He knows that this change, this transformation, will take time. He is not naïve; he knows that these things will continue to happen, and that we must remain vigilant. And that touched me deeply, because there is both a very emotional side, very empathetic, very focused on feelings and listening, and at the same time a very determined manner, powerful when he speaks.”
The systemic nature of abuse
One of the key terms to emerge during the meeting was the “systemic nature” of the abuse committed over these decades in the French Church, how it was addressed, and how prevention measures were implemented. It was also a prominent term in the 2021 CIASE report.
The Pope, Olivier Mardi said, “has a very clear view of the systemic dynamics, because this is an issue that obviously affects the Church, but also Catholic education”.
“What enables or allows these individuals to continue perpetrating abuse is really the systemic dimension that exists within the institution, that existed and still exists.”
Much work still to be done
“Much has been done in France”, and “the Pope acknowledged that the Church has indeed done a great deal in France”, and that “the French bishops have put measures in place that make France something of a pioneer in this area”, the group stressed.
But “an enormous amount of work remains to be done”. Work and commitment, including on the Pope’s part: “That was really important to hear.”
A journey is now beginning, and Pope Leo XIV “will make it with us”, the victims affirmed. “We have our own paths… He understood very well; he was very precise about joining forces with outside organizations to work together. And in this, he responded very positively to our proposals, our very concrete requests.”
Many proposals were presented: “Of course, he did not answer immediately, but he knows he has work to do. And that is rather encouraging.”
“I proposed dissolving the Congregation of the Fathers of Bétharram,” Delbos exclaimed. The congregation is also present in Africa and Latin America.
“We will remain vigilant,” was the concluding promise from the Pope’s “guests”. “Today we made numerous requests. We are waiting for answers.” Lourdes, meanwhile, remains “a key milestone”. – Vatican News
